the problem of overcrowded waters

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Johnno
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the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by Johnno » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:25 am

follow this link

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/100076 ... -waterways

It really is getting pretty bad.....



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Steve
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by Steve » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:15 am

Growth at all costs... It a tricky problem, one that is made worse by the loss of so many fisheries too, would like to see some facts and figures, licence sale growth etc



pomscott
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by pomscott » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:53 pm

Having read the article, I suppose I am part of the problem. Probably a very small part, but potentially hard hit by some of the proposals.
I come from Scotland each year in February to catch up with family and friends in North and South Islands. Alongside that there's trout and sea fishing. I pay the full season Non Resident permit for trout fishing and feel that is reasonable even considering that I fish only a small part of the season.
I can not afford to hire a guide (on top of air fares, accommodation, food etc ) but have found good friends among the Kiwi fly fishers, some of whom I fish with and others who generously give pointers in the knowledge that such will be used responsibly. All that probably dumps me in an "Economy, budget, low value, trout bum " category. I just accept that access to some of the "best" fishing is already not available to me, often due to guide - landowner arrangements.
For sure some action is necessary to protect New Zealand's fishing from over exploitation and industrial farming: a plea to those considering such action, don't forget those visitors who quietly enjoy some low profile, low impact fly fishing and could be excluded by some of the proposals.



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fraser hocks
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by fraser hocks » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:41 am

Unfortunately we have such an amazing fishery that the draw of it, is killing it. If I had a dollar for every person that has asked me this year where they can get into remote back country fishing without seeing another angler, id be rich. And I tell them all that since there are so many chasing that, then it just doesn't exist any more.

Were a tiny island with an amazing array of waters to fish, but unfortunately the huge number of people from around the planet that want to experience it means that its loosing its shine because solitude on a river is getting harder and harder to find.

Im not sure of the exact answer to the issue (as no one is at the moment) but somehow we have to manage the fishery in order to maintain its uniqueness. The idea of residents only on the weekends is a good one. I know several country's that already have this in place. My only concern is that compliance could be a nightmare.


Bucking trends in fly fishing since 1970!

upstream
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by upstream » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:34 am

I am a bit wary about restricting opportunities for anyone to fish, including visitors. I would be curious to see if visitor fishing days has increased, or if the problem has more to do with the same number of fishers trying to get on an ever-diminishing amount of quality water.

Pomscott, you don't sound like a part of the problem to me. I don't have any issue with considerate and well-mannered visiting anglers.



Kiwioz
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by Kiwioz » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:23 am

I am surprised that if the numbers of tourist anglers is such a burning issue it has not raised more comment on the forum. For full disclosure I am currently a non -resident Kiwi angler and use a non-residents licence and predominantly fish in Southland. In almost 20 years of fishing the south I could count on my fingers occasions I have encountered other anglers and these for the most part have been spin-fishers, however I deliberately avoid the few rivers which seem to attract high angler numbers. Non-resident licences are about 5% (2016-17) of all licenses issued.
My particular beef, (pun intended) is the impact of dairying and irrigation. Dairy cattle numbers increased 539 percent (616,831) in Southland, 490 percent (1,041,501) in Canterbury, and 368 percent (302,806) in Otago between 1994 and 2015. The impacts of water abstraction, nitrogen loads, nutrient run-off and consequent degradation of New Zealand rivers would seem to have a far more significant impact on the quality of the fishery than tourist anglers in a few selected catchments. I was fortunate to start out fly flogging (before I could call it casting) as a boy on the Selwyn in Canterbury, a river now a contaminated trickle of its former self.

Cheers,
Kiwioz



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TIDDLER
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by TIDDLER » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:10 pm

POMSCOTT - MAKES A GOOD POINT (as does kiwioz ). SURE ! THERE IS PRESSURE ON SOME OF OUR WATERWAYS BUT THAT IS NO REASON TO PUT PRESSURE ON THE GENUINE ANGLER VISITING OUR COUNTRY FOR A SPOT OF FISHING WHILST VISITING HIS RELATIVES AND FRIENDS . I HAVE MET TWO OVERSEAS FORUM MEMBERS AND TAKEN THEM FISHING AND HAVE ONGOING EMAIL COMMUNICATION WITH THEM . ONE , I CONSIDER TO BE A GOOD FRIEND . I ALSO COMMUNICATE WTH OTHERS THOUGH NOT MET . THESE GUYS ALL RESPECT OUR WATERS - FISH - AND OUR FISHING CULTURE . I'M SURE THATS THE CASE FOR MOST ANGLERS VISITING NZ.

ON THE 23rd JAN THIS YEAR I WENT TO MY FAVOURITE PUDDLE AND DURING THE COURSE OF THAT AFTERNOON (stinkin' hot day ) I MET AUSSIES - BRITS - IRISH - DUTCH - CANADIANS & AMERICANS . IT DID NOT WORRY ME A JOT . THEY WERE ALL HAVING A BALL (mostly not catching) AND ENJOYING THE HIGH COUNTRY EXPERIENCE . ONLY THE CANADIANS - IRISH - AND MYSELF CAUGHT FISH . THE LUCK OF THE IRISH WON OUT WITH THE BIGGEST FISH . HE HAD WALKED MILES TO GET IT SO WELL DESERVED . THIS PUDDLE IS BIG ENOUGH FOR ALL AND ENOUGH FISH FOR EVERY ONE .
POMSCOTT - I DO HAVE ONE ISSUE . ON FISHING WATERS JUST ONE DAY AFTER YOU I CAUGHT A WEE FISH . WHILST RELEASING IT FROM MY LINE IT SAID TO ME " Yer gey peelie - wally lookin' the day lassie " .
LATER I CAUGHT A LOVELY BIGUN ..... IT SAID " Yer lookin' fair braw ma bonnie lass - a muckle big yin a tell ye. " :D
IN NZ WE KNOW THAT PARROTS CAN MIMICK WHAT IS SAID TO THEM BUT TEACHING OUR TROUT IS NOT ON . :lol:

Al



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Isaak M
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by Isaak M » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:18 pm

Individually just about without exception, every single foreign angler I have met on the rivers has been courteous and good value. It probably comes from the fact that most have travelled a long way for the trip of a lifetime and are generally passionate and good anglers, especially those in the back country.

However that doesn't counter the fact that our rivers are getting the hug of death just from the sheer numbers of users in some areas. I now generally stop fishing from the months of December through February to avoid the neverending bootprints and spooky fish. When I do head out, I head to less scenic or more out of the way locations that are out of the general area when the concentrations of people will be.

I do think something needs to be done locally as it is getting hard to know where everyone is, perhaps a greater application of the beat system to ensure that there are clear cut lines to start and finish (similar to what was done on the Oreti). As everyone above says it seems unfair to punish the visitors who come here with the best of intentions.

Personally I believe the fact that we have a very photogenic country that translates well into photos and video which are now more easily shared than ever is the main problem here. You only have to look on Youtube where there are videos of fly fishing in New Zealand which have been viewed over 1 million times and many in the over 100,000 view count. Not sure there is an easy solution here, especially when people are making a profit from it.



pomscott
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by pomscott » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:07 pm

Tiddler, thanks for confirming that the fish survived well!
"POMSCOTT - I DO HAVE ONE ISSUE . ON FISHING WATERS JUST ONE DAY AFTER YOU I CAUGHT A WEE FISH . WHILST RELEASING IT FROM MY LINE IT SAID TO ME " Yer gey peelie - wally lookin' the day lassie " .
LATER I CAUGHT A LOVELY BIGUN ..... IT SAID " Yer lookin' fair braw ma bonnie lass - a muckle big yin a tell ye. "
IN NZ WE KNOW THAT PARROTS CAN MIMICK WHAT IS SAID TO THEM BUT TEACHING OUR TROUT IS NOT ON ."

Bearing in mind the wide range of visitors there may soon be a new strain of multilingual troot.
More seriously, it is good to hear that we are not all regarded as pests, thanks for that re-assurance.



Johnno
Posts: 594
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by Johnno » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:11 pm

The total fishery is small. Tiny really. That’s the point that’s lost. The waters and the unique characteristics of the trout and their habits here in NZ simply cannot cope with the massive pressure that’s being put in them. Which increases every year.

And pollution, GW, farming practices, and poor management just lessen the available waters, increasing pressure on already pressured water.

I don’t live in the south of the South, but the north of the south. There ARE waters even here that get a whole lot more attention than they can really realistically cope with as a fishery. I have witnessed a increase in Angler pressure on my local waters, near and further away. To the point there’s no point fishing some places any more. And it’s overseas anglers occupying the spaces.

I have seen the cynical long term occupation of remote back country huts by foreign anglers who don’t give a shit about next month. They’ve gone by then. Why do they care? They’ve had their fun.. they don’t care about the locals or the tourists who follow and leave disappointed. Yes ,they do leave in that frame of mind believe me. And that’s sad. It’s a long way to come to leave like that.

More recently I’ve witnessed the total and final destruction of the most beautiful stream in the country thanks to a cyclone. It’s my local I live 30 seconds from. Should be a jewel in the crown; It’s now a silt laden log choked ditch. And before that, forestry practice and poor council management took it’s toll. And no number of meetings and disquiet made one iota of difference. I doubt it’ll recover to any semblance of its former self. Which just adds pressure to the remaining waters. And some of them in the last 18 years have gone downhill badly.

And then thanks to increased pressure on other water, I have overseas anglers walking up and blatantly cutting in front of me. That’s happening more and more. Never used to. Ever. It’s rude and ignorant. And they shrug their shoulders and .... don’t care. They just want to catch NZ trout. And they don’t care about cleaning their gear before moving from one water to the next, although to be fair many locals don’t either...

And talk to a certain well known tackle shop in ChCh where four hours solid on the day before opening, not ONE local Angler coming into the shop. The whole lot, one customer after the other were overseas guys trying to harvest information and locales. Yes good for business, but bad for rivers.

Problem is how do you differentiate between the Pomscotts and the hard core 6 month incountry scandanavian trout bum? You can’t. So you simply cannot make one rule for one group or type of overseas angler and not another. It’s not going to work.

But seeing the downfall of my local waters in particular I’m a little sick of what’s happening.

It’s at the point I doubt I’ll be fishing in another 20 years. Something I’d never of dreamt of thinking 20 yrs ago.

Pretty sad to say that in my own country. So it’s a topic that’s being talked about because it needs to be. What’s the solution? God knows. Perhaps go find some other Nirvana. There is somewhere in the world where the trout fishing is far better than NZ. It’s what NZ used to be. It’s extraordinary.

Until The world discovers it......



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