Scott S4. Very floppy

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murfm
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 5:12 pm

Scott S4. Very floppy

Post by murfm » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:07 am

Hi
I purchased one of the last 9ft 6 Scott S4 #8 weight last year for use at Taupo.
I find it very floppy compared to my son-in-laws Sage One and very difficult to cast big bombs.
The problem is more likely to be my casting technique though!
My question is how is one " fast" rod quite stiff and another very floppy?
cheers
Murf
:oops:



ozswitch
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:00 pm

Re: Scott S4. Very floppy

Post by ozswitch » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:30 pm

It probably varies from one manufacturer to another as to what and how they define 'fast' action rods, some use it to describe a stiff rod (loomis max glx for instance) and some use it to describe a rod that recovers quickly (what i would imagine your s4 is doing) bends deeply but recovers quickly, the other description i see sometimes (but far less these days) is slow action - typically a rod that bends deeply but keeps on wobbling long after any cast has been made.
With a fast rod thay bends deeply but recovers quickly it would be a matter of allowing for that in your casting stroke, alow the rod to load and let it do its thing, when it unloads and you shoot your cast it will do so very well, all that stored power has to go somewhere, if your timing is good it will go straight through down your line ;)
Hope that helps



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fraser hocks
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 3:25 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Scott S4. Very floppy

Post by fraser hocks » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:33 am

Yea pretty much as Ozswitch said. Fast really is a term that is mostly used to describe the speed at which the rod recovers back to its original straight after its been flexed. A stiff rod is what your chasing, not necessarily a fast rod. This is a common misconception. Scott explain it well on there webpage listing the flex profile as well as the recovery speed of the blank. http://www.scottflyrod.com/catalog/details/s4s

The S4 is a fast rod with a slightly fuller action than most say Sage rods. If your looking to throw big heavy bombs about then you want a really stiff rod that will flex every little under a heavy load like a bomb rig. Adapting your casting technique will always help (like using a double haul) but really if your regularly going to be throwing heavy flys, invest in a stiff rod to do the job.

The S4 is a great rod for a huge range of fishing techniques, but something with a VERY stiff lower and section will be far better suited to what you want. A One or something similar would probably be the way to go. Maybe someone here can suggest a good rod for such a purpose? I personally I prefer to fish with more fuller action rods, so cant really make many suggestions (I find a S4 too stiff for most of my freshwater applications)

Just out of interest, are you sure its not an Scott A4 you have? Reason I ask is you would be the first person iv heard call an S4 slow? The A4 is rated as a medium Or maybe its just because your used to the ultra stiff Sage rods? :?:


Bucking trends in fly fishing since 1970!

TheBadger
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 3:11 am

Re: Scott S4. Very floppy

Post by TheBadger » Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:46 pm

fraser hocks wrote: If your looking to throw big heavy bombs about then you want a really stiff rod that will flex every little under a heavy load like a bomb rig. Adapting your casting technique will always help (like using a double haul) but really if your regularly going to be throwing heavy flys, invest in a stiff rod to do the job.
I totally and fundamentally disagree with you here. A soft rod in capable hands will typically absorb the shock of casting heavy flies much better than a stiff rod. I just don't get the obsession with fast rods, as most anglers that own them can't generate sufficient line speed to actually get the best out of the rod. And if you have to overline a rod then you bought the wrong rod in my opinion. Mini-rant over.

Murfm - you might find that the extra 6 inches over a 9' rod dampens the action slightly and makes it feel a little softer. Is your son-in-laws One a 9' rod? At a guess I would say the one is slightly faster in objective terms. However, if I was you I would stick with the slightly softer rod for the water you're fishing and adjust your casting stroke slightly. If you incorporate slightly more open loops and a more elliptical casting stroke (google that one for a better explanation than I can offer). Best of all though - learn the Tongariro Roll Cast, for which your 9'6" s4 would be excellent I'd imagine.

Cheers,

Jack



Clark Reid
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Scott S4. Very floppy

Post by Clark Reid » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:08 pm

I have to agree unequivocally with Jack here! I am a fast rod fanatic, and have been "involved" with Sage for many years. They build quite a number of fuller actioned rods too.

However, when it comes to casting weight I absolutely prefer the full actioned rod which absorbs much of the weight during the casts and, as much as is possible, eliminates the "Clunk, clunk" you get with faster rods and lots of weight.

Where i would say Jack might want to look is to the new Sage Method's which load right through the handle but recover faster than the old super stiff TCR sticks (Which i loved as a fast rod fanatic) and many of those would be ideal Tongariro Rods. The new Sage Accel should be just about perfect for the role you are putting it to. I wouldn't personally use a Scott for heavy nymph work due to them have very thin walls, basically a dry fly rod... not designed to be hit by Tungsten at all.
This youtube clip outlines at about 5.50 how they design very thin walls, you don't want that to cast a bomb with a thin walled blank... it'll end in tears!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo1SGwMCUY0



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fraser hocks
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Location: Queenstown

Re: Scott S4. Very floppy

Post by fraser hocks » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:16 pm

Supose the diferent responses shows that it comes down to personal preference hey?

IV got a vey stiff Orivs rod that I bought sight unseen years ago. I was going to get rid of it, but I still pull it out early season when all im doing is throwing truck and trailer nymphs and a big indicator.


Bucking trends in fly fishing since 1970!

TheBadger
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 3:11 am

Re: Scott S4. Very floppy

Post by TheBadger » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:00 pm

Some of it will come down to preference, a lot will come down to experience. There's an enormous amount of bad information that gets bandied about as fact on forums.



Clark Reid
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Scott S4. Very floppy

Post by Clark Reid » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:08 pm

fraser hocks wrote:Supose the diferent responses shows that it comes down to personal preference hey?

IV got a vey stiff Orivs rod that I bought sight unseen years ago. I was going to get rid of it, but I still pull it out early season when all im doing is throwing truck and trailer nymphs and a big indicator.
The fact that you prefer it mate doesn't make it your best choice, just what you think you need.

I reckon you will improve your experience when you determine the best rod for the job, right now it seems you might be a wee bit of track.



Wilki
Posts: 221
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Re: Scott S4. Very floppy

Post by Wilki » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:23 pm

Slightly on topic or maybe not??? Was listening to Carl McNeil on April Vokey's pod cast... one comment Carl made caught my ear about how as anglers we select a good rod for something we like then work our way down to the fly instead of choosing the fly best suited to our target species/water and working our way back up the system to the rod.
Not exactly the words he used I'm sure, it's worth a listen if you haven't http://www.aprilvokey.com/podcasts/
I have a reasonable rod collection, selecting them for different waters I like to fish... I don't claim to understand half the jargon about rods but only recently started to understand the difference between a stiff rod and a fast rod :lol:



murfm
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Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 5:12 pm

Re: Scott S4. Very floppy

Post by murfm » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:59 am

Thanks everyone for your good comments
I have got used to the S4 and like it a lot and getting much better at lobbing bombs but certainly not an expert.
Whilst we visit the Big T a fair bit I have used my #6 Kilwell SAS quite a bit and it does the job Ok as well.
I now need to get some lessons in the Tongariro roll cast so that is next on my list.
Incidently my son in laws Sage One is now a Sage 4 having broken the tip 3 times. He has used his #8 Aiflo very successfully a lot more with no breakages.
cheers
murfm



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