the problem of overcrowded waters

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Steve
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by Steve » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:06 am

SuperJack.10 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:40 pm
Does anybody know if F&G has ever commissioned a proper study on this problem? Problem definition, quantification, options analysis etc? Based on some of the comments made in here there definitely seems to be a gap in good data on it. I know they probably don’t have a ton of money for things like this but it certainly seems to arouse the passions of members...
Yes indeed, that's what is needed, they must have a reasonable amount of info via the back country licences and licence sales, some targeted surveys of some key spots would provide more detailed info on usage levels.



SuperJack.10
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by SuperJack.10 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:53 am

According to this opinion piece in the Timaru Herald today https://i.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/opi ... app-iPhone F&G recently received a “major new report into the statutory organisation, by analysts Doughty Consulting, which identifies "a trend of reducing revenue from local licence sales and declining participation as a percentage of population in both fishing and hunting"” and identifies this could lead to the organisation being financially unsustainable. So no, not much to go round. But looks like they are looking at doing some more work on angler experience etc which lines up with what I was suggesting above.



Erik Moller
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by Erik Moller » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:45 am

SuperJack.
As a visiting angler, I have kept quiet after things got rather nasty on this thread.
But the point in your post is one of the issues I had in mind to address.
I don't know what it is like in NZ but in Denmark and other european countries there is a decline in active anglers as youngsters seem to prefer virtual and social medias to pass their time. This of course will leave the sport fishing community with much less power to affect political decisions that have an influence on the fisheries. This is a major concern in my part of the world.
Having visited NZ 12 times since Y2K, I have not noticed a significant increase in angling pressure. Maybe because I don't often target the "trophy waters" and not travelling the most popular regions.
I do not deny there is a problem. If some resident anglers think there is one, then there is.
Now, if some of the more radical views about restricting visiting anglers to not being allowed to fish back country waters and small streams and only allowed to fish the remainder on certain days for a given period, then a lot of visitors will stay away.
That might be just what BTS and others would love, but in the long term you will loose the political influence to protect your waters from other, and in my view more serious threats.
Sadly, in this world money talks and the less anglers the less the decision makers will give a shit about the state of your waters.



SuperJack.10
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by SuperJack.10 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:13 pm

Good post Erik. I get uncomfortable when overly punitive measures get discussed because I want as many people to feel like they have a stake in the resource as possible, for the reasons you mention. And that’s not to belittle those that feel like the rivers they fish are overcrowded now -- just that we should be careful that we know what outcomes we want from some of these extreme measures that get thrown around.



Trout United
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by Trout United » Fri May 04, 2018 8:14 pm

TIDDLER wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:06 pm
NOT OF LOBBY GROUPS !
Not the smartest quote I've seen on this forum. :oops:
Probably the most naive though. :lol:

The practice of lobbying provides a forum for the resolution of conflicts among often diverse and competing points of view; provides information, analysis, and opinion to legislators and government leaders to allow for informed and balanced decision making; and creates a system of checks and balances that allows for competition among interest groups, keeping any one group from attaining a permanent position of power. Lobbyists can help the legislative process work more effectively by providing Fish and Game with reliable data and accurate assessments of a bill's effect.

Most changes made by Fish n Game have been presented by Lobby Groups, which consist of Fishing Club, like minded Volunteers, etc



Trout United
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by Trout United » Fri May 04, 2018 9:20 pm

WiscoNZ wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:18 am
What really gives you the right to preclude people from certain days and rivers? These guys are flying across the world to enjoy these waters and spending thousands of dollars. It's their dream to come fish here. oh but they show up here and you say "nope just these 3 rivers you can't go to any of the good stuff." It's the Queens waterways if I recall correctly. Should the Maoris be able to just shut any water way off? Technically they were here first. New Zealand was only founded in 1840 for God's sakes man.

I have no issue with saying charge more money, thats the way of the game. More wardens, more money for structural fixes. 17.1% of NZ's export earnings came from tourism last year. 4.6% of the countries GDP is tourism. That's INSANE. And I can tell you fishing is a huge portion of that. Recreational fishing in New Zealand accounts for a direct injection of 638 million into the GDP and an estimated 1.7 billion dollar spread to the overall economy. An estimated 8000 jobs as well. If you can't see the importance of this to the country as a whole you're just putting your head in the sand telling people go away.
Some valid Data provided there, but you have missed the whole point.
We're talking about freshwater fishing, not the whole of "Recreational fishing" which includes fishing from Rivers, Beaches, Seas and Oceans. There are 594,62 marine fishers along with 28,000 international marine anglers.
A lot bigger than the number of recreational "Freshwater" anglers which are governed by Fish and Game.

Do your research first before publishing data and understand the topic at hand. :oops:

Unfortunately the Maoris , Technically, weren't here first, the first settlers were the Moriori.

"New Zealand was only founded in 1840 for God's sakes man" Why bring God into a discussion about fishing, even though Jesus and his mates were fisherman. :lol:

Maoris don't own the water nor the trout released in them.

I think you have mistaken "Queens Chain" with the "Queens Waterway" two completely different definitions. :oops:



SuperJack.10
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by SuperJack.10 » Sat May 05, 2018 8:21 pm

Trout United wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:20 pm
Unfortunately the Maoris , Technically, weren't here first, the first settlers were the Moriori.
This is wrong. Not sure what this really had to do with his substantive point, but since your first posts were to tell everyone how wrong they were, I thought you might like to be corrected as it’s obviously important to you.

“During the early 20th century it was commonly, but erroneously, believed that the Moriori were pre-Māori settlers of New Zealand, linguistically and genetically different from the Māori...Current research indicates that ancestral Moriori were Māori Polynesians who emigrated to the Chatham Islands from mainland New Zealand around 1500 AD.”

You can very quickly learn this with 30 seconds of research online, or, how did you put it?
Trout United wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:20 pm
Do your research first before publishing data and understand the topic at hand. :oops:



kotuku71
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by kotuku71 » Sun May 06, 2018 5:37 pm

NZF and G is not servicing us well, The CEO is quoted in the Dominion, 24 March as saying he does not favour limiting the fishing of overseas anglers. Does he even go fishing? How would he like this, on the Waikaia last week; I drive up to a bridge...no cars....I walk downstream for 15 min to fish back up. Two overseas anglers scurry cross from their farm house accommodation from the road opposite to where I had stopped for a breather. Another of their mates has gone up stream. I walk back to car where a guide with two clients is fishing behind me with two clients (nationality unknown). This is the last week of the season for Gods sake. There must be hundreds of anecdotes like this but we mugs just suffer it.



WiscoNZ
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by WiscoNZ » Fri May 11, 2018 2:09 pm

SuperJack.10 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 8:21 pm
Trout United wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:20 pm
Unfortunately the Maoris , Technically, weren't here first, the first settlers were the Moriori.
This is wrong. Not sure what this really had to do with his substantive point, but since your first posts were to tell everyone how wrong they were, I thought you might like to be corrected as it’s obviously important to you.

“During the early 20th century it was commonly, but erroneously, believed that the Moriori were pre-Māori settlers of New Zealand, linguistically and genetically different from the Māori...Current research indicates that ancestral Moriori were Māori Polynesians who emigrated to the Chatham Islands from mainland New Zealand around 1500 AD.”

You can very quickly learn this with 30 seconds of research online, or, how did you put it?
Trout United wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:20 pm
Do your research first before publishing data and understand the topic at hand. :oops:
This is how the internet works, nothing about my actual point in the post. All he was trying to do was discredit real data. I give the point that it does include many different forms of fishing. But all those types of fishing not just trout and backwater ways need better and smarter regulation. I'm just against ridiculous entitlement really. Did he really actually say anything or add to the discussion? Nope just trying to discredit. Even this is derailing really. We should be better then that.



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Sol
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Re: the problem of overcrowded waters

Post by Sol » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:56 pm

It's a long (and wet) weekend in Sydney, so I thought I'd join in this discussion.

I first balked in this forum in Sep 2014 when NR licence fees were upped by F&G. I thought then that this act was discriminatory in a country which I have always regarded as paradise, where I fished for over 30 years, where I have a place of my own for 13 years, and where I was hoping to retire and become a resident. I argued then about the philosophy of "outdoor culture" and its proposed restrictions, and thought that it would be more beneficial if the government applied it to your land, your farms, and your dairies against foreign ownership.

Reviewing this current topic, I fully empathise with most of the posts regarding the problems with overcrowded and backcountry waters, but am absolutely abhorred with the notions that are being proposed by your (hopefully not very important) KiwiAnglersFirst movement.
The almost fascist ideas that are postulated by that movement are in my mind everything that is so uncharacteristic of the generous spirit of the Kiwi folk. I mean, hello, "reduce NR licence to 3 weeks in length giving 12 days fishing, with rest days on Friday Saturday and Sunday"? Has the government considered restricting NZ tourists from eating in restaurants on Friday Saturday and Sunday, or limiting the areas that a tourist can visit in this country?

It is exactly this type of notion that is preventing me from applying for a New Zealand permanent residency. I am really unsure if I want to belong to a club that can impose these sorts of ideas on a national resource which contributes enormously to its economy and which has always been regarded world-wide as the valhalla of flyfishing. Do you really want to make that sort of a name for yourself?
Thankfully, there are many readers in your forum that think otherwise.

God bless,
Sol.



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