Salmon going forward

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Steve
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Salmon going forward

Post by Steve » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:33 pm

Here’s an interview with the new NC F&G CEO mostly to do with their new approach to the salmon fishery – it’s good stuff I reckon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXg1ps39R3A&feature=youtu.be



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TIDDLER
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Re: Salmon going forward

Post by TIDDLER » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:57 pm

MMmmm IT HAS SOME GOOD STUFF STEVE BUT IT IS A LONG & REPETITIVE PEICE ESPOUSING THE NEW IDEAS AND COMPLETELY ELIMINATING WHAT "DID " WORK IN THE PAST .
eg ... HE DOES NOT TOUCH ON WILD SEA FISH ENTERING A RIVER OF THEIR OWN VOLITION AND THEN BEING CAUGHT AND THEIR EGGS AND SPERM BEING HARVESTED . THESE FERTILISED EGGS BEING PUT INTO A SPECIALISED HATCHERY WHICH ONLY DEALS IN SUCH FISH .
WE ALL KNOW THAT TAKING YOUNG FISH FROM HATCHERY ⓵ ON RIVER 🄐 AND PUTTING THEM INTO RIVER 🄑 DOESN'T WORK BUT THAT MEANS WE SHOULD REFINE THE SYSTEM SO THAT ONLY FISH RAISED ON EGGS FROM WILD FISH IN RIVER ⒢ BE RELEASED IN RIVER ⒢.IN ADDITION TO MR & MRS SALMON DOING THEIR THING IN ⒢.

TOO OFTEN IN NZ WE THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER . SURE ! MAKE CHANGES BUT DON'T LOSE THE PAST KNOWLEDGE . THE OLD TIMERS WERE SUCCESSFUL WITHOUT ALL THE MODERN STUDIES .
Al.



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Steve
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Re: Salmon going forward

Post by Steve » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:46 pm

I was impressed with the new CEO Al - he seems a switched on and passionate individual, the whole salmon thing has become quite messed up with a lot of miss information out there, plus some of the hatcheries weren't doing as you say and weren't using the wild stock. And then, is it right to be taking wild stock out of the system when the system is struggling, and using them in hatcheries that haven't really shown they can get better results.

One of the very obvious impacts of the Hatchery fish on the Rakaia is the size of the fish - they are all tiddler's :) now Al, in the good old days they wouldn't even have been considered a salmon, if you hooked one you'd want to shake it of because you might be missing out on a real fish!

I think there is a place for hatcheries, and the guy's running the volunteer hatcheries are very passionate too about trying to improve the fishery, just care needs to be taken to ensure they don't impact on the wild fishery

One of the big issues is the cost of production, it has been estimated the fish cost around 1k each to produce, and that's in a good year when returns are high, in a poor year it's even higher per fish.

The hatcheries that are cost effective are the volunteer ones, however even that volunteer labor has a value.

It's going to be interesting to see how it pans out over the next few years, and to see what response the two NC rivers manage to achieve with no hatcheries.

I certainly believe in the fish's ability to adapted to the current environment, we just need to remove the obvious hurdles - eg lack of or poor screening being number one, reduce the harvest is another;

At the moment with very low returns, measured in the few 100s in most of our east coast rivers, and poor ocean conditions, we may be getting one fish back for every one returning adult, so each wild fish harvested reduces the wild population by one, this clearly can not continue, so that's another thing that needs to be fixed, bringing in a season bag limit is one answer being looked at.



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Re: Salmon going forward

Post by TIDDLER » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:11 pm

WE ARE BOTH SINGING FROM THE SAME HYM SHEET.😇
plus some of the hatcheries weren't doing as you say and weren't using the wild stock.
YOUR RIGHT - THEY WERN'T / ARN'T .... BRING BACK THE BERCH ! :P

YOUR FORTUNATE IN CANTERBURY BUT ON THE CLUTHA THIS YEAR I DON'T KNOW OF ANYONE WHO HAS EVEN HEARD OF A "CATCH" LET ALONE SEEN ONE.
WE CAN'T AFFORD TO IGNORE ANY VIABLE OPTION .
Al



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Re: Salmon going forward

Post by Johnno » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:33 am

You can do all you like in the rivers but it isn’t going to solve one hell of a lot.

One of the main problems is what’s happening out at sea. That’s where the smolt go and the salmon feed and grow.

The size of the salmon now compared to even the 90s indicates to me that the food chain has gone awry.
And often utter rubbish condition.
A lot of fish are not in good condition to suffer the rigours of fresh water to spawning....

Climate change?
Over fishing of something else affecting a food chain?

But I think there really is something badly wrong out there and no one seems to know what it is.

You can do all you like in the rivers, but what’s going on at sea. That’s where research needs to happen.

Oh and the commercial fishermen and their “by catch”. That needs to stop.



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Re: Salmon going forward

Post by Steve » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:54 pm

We had a talk from a cawthron scientist and he did comment on sea conditions, he suggested it is cyclonic, but I don't recall exactly what he said, he was optimistic though that we can re-establish the fishery, not to the level it was before, something at a lower level.

There's a report to F&G from the same chap on hatchery practices in NZ here https://fishandgame.org.nz/dmsdocument/1418



Andy W
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Re: Salmon going forward

Post by Andy W » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:30 pm

TIDDLER wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:57 pm
MMmmm IT HAS SOME GOOD STUFF STEVE BUT IT IS A LONG & REPETITIVE PEICE ESPOUSING THE NEW IDEAS AND COMPLETELY ELIMINATING WHAT "DID " WORK IN THE PAST .
eg ... HE DOES NOT TOUCH ON WILD SEA FISH ENTERING A RIVER OF THEIR OWN VOLITION AND THEN BEING CAUGHT AND THEIR EGGS AND SPERM BEING HARVESTED . THESE FERTILISED EGGS BEING PUT INTO A SPECIALISED HATCHERY WHICH ONLY DEALS IN SUCH FISH .
WE ALL KNOW THAT TAKING YOUNG FISH FROM HATCHERY ⓵ ON RIVER 🄐 AND PUTTING THEM INTO RIVER 🄑 DOESN'T WORK BUT THAT MEANS WE SHOULD REFINE THE SYSTEM SO THAT ONLY FISH RAISED ON EGGS FROM WILD FISH IN RIVER ⒢ BE RELEASED IN RIVER ⒢.IN ADDITION TO MR & MRS SALMON DOING THEIR THING IN ⒢.

TOO OFTEN IN NZ WE THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER . SURE ! MAKE CHANGES BUT DON'T LOSE THE PAST KNOWLEDGE . THE OLD TIMERS WERE SUCCESSFUL WITHOUT ALL THE MODERN STUDIES .
Al.
The thing is, that in the past millions of fish were released which quickly replaced the wild run fish - and thus the size of fish plummeted very fast. Then once that release of millions stopped as it did at Glenarrife, the remaining population didn’t recover. So, its effectively what was done in the past that has wrecked the fishery.

He didn’t touch on NCF&G using wild stock from harvested fish exactly, other than saying that best practice overseas is to step back from that type of policy (large release/ hatchery raised wild or otherwise stock) and if need be do small run releases for monitoring using wild stock. Incidentally – CSIF&G have already put a policy in place for the Waitaki volunteer hatchery, where they only use wild sourced eggs and milt. Hence, they have had an up and down program. IE No fish trapped on the Haka = no stock for that year class. In that case they strip 2.5-year-old fish that have reached maturity from their existing stock in races.



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Re: Salmon going forward

Post by TIDDLER » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:24 pm

I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BUT THE CLUTHA IS A SEPERATE CASE .

IN CANTERBURY YOU ARE TRYING TO PROTECT EXISTING STOCKS WHILST BUILDING UP NEW STOCKS .

THERE IS NOTHING LEFT IN THE CLUTHA SO TIME TO START AFRESH AND PREFERABLY BEFORE
ANGLERS GO THE WAY OF THE SALMON OF YESTERYEAR :P .
Al.



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